Tape 017
Short_Description:
Exterior Interviews
TranscriptText:
Netscape Documentary
Tape 17
Exterior shots
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how things are going as far as bug fixes do you have number
DM We didnt have meeting today bcaseu Michael wanted to kill the meeting so we
could all do work which though was very very good idea Were holding at
about 30 or so bugs that matte for Friday think were 80 total but most of the
rest are cruft that were not going to have to worry about until next week The big
thing right now is uh three things Im worried about which is the security-ectomy
the java-ectomy and in general the Mac Build because uh the Mac Build is done
differently its done with these things called project files rather than make files and
its lot harder to make big radical changes And were trying to do all of these
three things in parallel and its just colossal pain and weve got some resource
issues where weve had to switch some people around Now at the same time
were trying to focus on those three big things and feel really want to get those
under control tonight cause if we dont feel like we have our arms around that
tonight Wednesday night were doomed for getting it in on Friday right dont
think its gonna haPPJUm so with those three issues we also have the things
thats getting us right now is signing all the files You know Lloyd Tabbs sign out
the file thing And weve got lots of problems with that in the sense that weve got
some key people out sick actually who were signed up to sign bunch of files Im $IIK
running around trying to get other people to do that Weve got other people who
own lot of files who are unfortunately are involved in those first three issues so
we have to get other people assigned their files uh and in the process of signing it
files we done re-review on what we did and we went- OOPS we missed
couple of things So like urn one of em we apparently used in one file some code
out of Develop Magazine article by Brian Ressler urn Betrs is his nickname
4e is
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hes know in the valley friend of mine from when worked at Adobe so why
the call him Beakers dont know anything get clearance from him to use his
work and credit him and all that stuff and get that out of the way cause thats P-O
priority zero bug until then And uh its you know just one stupid nightmare
after another And also have the added problem that normally on Wednesday
nights it is Wednesday isnt it that the Mac engineers usually duck out to the
pool hail on Castro Street and play pool and drink beer and eat ice cream who_J
knows And so Ive offered like meal bounty like Im buying whatever you
want tonight just stick around and work yourselves to death and so Im being
you know the cruel task master whatever And well see how that works Cause
several of them got kind of tired last night Steve and Scott were working pretty
late so..
Is there anything more challenging about this particular undertaking than
you ordinarily encounter or is this standard stuff
DM Well part of the standard thing is the is fighting entropy in the the kind of thing
when you run around like chicken with your head cut off kind of thing But really
the different
thing in source 331 is you know were having to be were having to
thing like lawyers and bureaucrats and stuff with all these source files were
having to think much more closely about the build And really were making it up
as we go along because nobodys ever tried to pull this stunt with source base
this
large mean its huge mean there are operating systems out there that arent
as big as our code base right Um which is both good and bad guess So thats
the hardest thing is that were inventing the process as we go uh and everyday is
just one new thing that we though we had handle on and the right way to do it
and its nuts Like today again what reared its ugly head is how were gonna deal
with the fact that it looks like we cant give the mail and news source out because of
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licensing issues And so weve got the Netscape faction right who you know
were tired and like were being flogged its like no no no we wont give it up
because thats easier right Now go away and dont bother me So they can get
something else done And then we have the people in Mozilla.org you know who
have to put on the Mozilla.org hat and think for the internet and say you know this
is bogus weve got to give something out or were not being true and theyre
doing the right thing as wbutyeu-imwtTiat balancing act isj ri ht
uh people get sick you know this week cause theyve been
working so long and people also blow up laughs and get angry which can be
fun to watch actually on occasion myself blew up last night uh at couple of
people and apologized profusely dont normally do that which was good sign
to me to go home think left at after 1100 last night went home and said no
tonight slee ing hours hours of sleep and wont do something stupid like
that again
UmTara though Im worried about Tara Shes got like and half three hours
sleep tops right now She looks uh like hell really like hell And thats gonna
happen think to the Java and security team members as well And theyre like
critical path on critical
resou_f/so uh were gonna ..tonights gonna be fun
night If we dont make some headway tonight uh think were doomed for
Friday otmeathat were doomed for failure for 331 just so you
know mean the Friday day is day we just pulled out of asses right mean
laughs we said OK we better have this much done because when you have when
youve never done this before you want to be really conservative and you want to
say we want to have this much accomplished by that day hse that gives us
enough time to test it and get it right and everything else
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the people in the building and working on 331 is there one that you
hate to see not be part of the process
Its Tara ara is theuh is the focal point fora lot of this stuff Cause she really
has to know everything aS keep everything in-her liand stuff like that If
there is one person dont think there is one person and thats one thing that
makes it fun about working at Netscape and being team cause we distribute the
pain lot And if Tara has to go home and crash or if she implodes slightly for
temporary reason or whatever then the nice thing about working at Netscape is
you know people jump in and fill the Gap Like one of the guys on my team
Chris MacAfee whos home sick today hes actually still working from home
though you know groggy over the keyboards but other people on his team and
other teams are jumping in to help him right to cover the bases You know if get
hit by bus tomorrow mean somebody will cover for me And when you think
about it mostly what do is like my big job is being busy body right is just
making sure everything is getting done Its like the person on the assembly line
that makes sure the widgets are there right And you know somebody is sitting
there at the beginning of the process and feeding it you know thats one of my
jobs is to make sure that happens Uh Tarns job is you know more complicated
Shes got to be the person whos got like 50 conveyor belts feeding here and
likejj
handing things off and so its little bit harder
Michael right now is sitting up at much higher lever trying to deal with some um
some bigger issues and Lloyd right now is worried about lot of Mozilla.org stuff
and the whole process of signing And we sort of switch hats lot of times Like
you know we just play it by ear And the four of us have generally been the ones
in the center of that mess right now
Of all
would
DM
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saw Jamie Zawinksi in the build pit it Looked like he was helping out
little bit
DM Yeah looked at him and said you know Jamie theres something different about
you today and bet you know what it is And so uh its true But you cant miss
the hair can you Cant miss the hair
Urn yeah its been really good because lot of people have been jumping in and
doing what they can uh weird hours and solving problems that are not their jobs
and one thing thats really great about this organization is the willingness to do
that You know its not my job unless it gets done we fail so something better
get done and really like working with group of people like that and
organization like that and just doing the mean stuff like this
suppose you learn lot Now if Ill have this experience ill ever go to another
company thats gonna do something this crazy Ill certainly know how to do that
Great thanks Well catch up with you tonight at 10
DM Yeah We may actually have lot of the problems solved Ill still be here at 10
oclock Um Scott will still be here urn several of the other people will still be
here we may have some of the problems actually solved by then Uh but Ill
certainly still be here
We may check in..
DM Why dont you give me call around...why dont you give me call around
oclock Heres the number...
79IL
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DM Yeah this things strapped to my ass all the time too Uh 510-501-3846
So did you have pilot before you came here..
tape breaks
DM And if you cant get hold of me here call Scott Collins at 650-937-2350 and hell
know how to find me
You ought to sit down and talk to Scott for while Youd get some real colorful
footage
Im gonna do that like Scott
/1
break
Honey Im home
So uh did you find out anything about security things
TH Im waiting for call back
DM OK so were still kind of doomed that way right
Th Yeah
DM OK
TH Ahh
DM OK so urn whats the if we dont here from Jeff by..
TH Im thinking very strongly that maybe Ill get in my little car and go toddling well
that would be really lazy will walk across the street and go to building 12 and go
find him and beat him and see whats going on
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DM Cause yeah if were not getting that if we dont get that data to Cathy and urn
we want to get the rest of the thing on Windows were doomed
OK Im gonna go upstairs and see how the Mac Weasels are doing
TH And at night the icicles go
DM There you go there you go Thats what my biggest fear is And Rick..
TM
tlle5
still not answering his phone dont think he loves us
DM dont think he ever answers that damn phone
TM Oh wait minute he went out to dinner No he sent me mail saying hes leaving
and coming back
DM Is this dinner is this lunch or is this breakfast
TH Well you never know with Weinstein Hang on...Jeff Weinstein nope sender.
Hey if you talk to him tell him to answer my mail
DM Hes note answering his mail either
Well just sent it little while ago so...you know.
TH It says will be out of the office from to
DM
TH
DM
Well its so he like got excited and left early
Urn well he better have gotten some data to Cathy or thats not gonna get any
traction before and then ..hey
actually have 4.5 issue need to go over with him
Oh OK and then we need to get
the windows thing under control right
Yes Sara is busily building right now and..
Is she going to be living here tonight if Jeff back at to answer the question
Uh thats entirely possible
OK are you going to be here tonight
Thats entirely possible
Th
DM
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Thats entirely too possible laughs
And you know how much tequila Im gonna want out of this
Speaking of that was wondering if could get shot of medication Perhaps..
You know um...yeah
Any cups
Are you kidding Salud
Smooth
Gimme that back But you didnt finish it
Huh non want you to fill that up about half way laughter
Must have more..
Bingo
Remember you have to drink you quickly or it east its way through the cup
just imagine what it does to my throat
Thats what Brian always says
Ohyeah
Do you feel medicated
Retire that one OK..
Its dead OK so youre gonna go upstairs and youre gonna come back down
here and maybe you and will hold hands and go across and find Jeff in the next 20
minutes OK 20 minutes
All right Ill be back
All right Im gonna check in with these guys and then Im gonna see when they
want to have lunch and Im gonna try to keep them here and not go out and play
pool tonight which they usually do on Wednesday
TEl Be prepared to offer .1
DM told them whatever the hell they want to eat Im buying
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Til Well did that last night Im done
DM We cant expense that cant we
TH lam planning on it
DM Thats about what it cost me back in January when uh the Tight House
remember..
TH Oh dont remind me
DM Yeah yeah
TH Please site down
what do you want
TH Uh want what want is just to figure out what our process is for uh like right
now you guys are making check-ins does it make sense to keep the tree closed
Should we just re-open the tree whos approving the check-ins uh. .what your
procedure how do you want to run this
Uh cause yeah we pinged and said you know look warn us before you cheek
and that has not happened
TH Right and if theres lots of stuff coming in basically the reason wed want to
know is are we taking incremental changes to these builds you know what
whats...how do you want to handle that
Well wanted to generally keep the tree closed in closed state thats not open
for any thing other than approved changes..
TH OK
And we should just talk about what approved change means had uh without
uh any advice from you said approved change meant your manager approved it
and you had appropriate code review and all those other kinds of things
TH What we probably want to do thats great...
And gave Marcus the ability to close the tree if he needed to not even open close
ct2fl1
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TH Right think what we want to do is to make sure that when we do the approve
stuff we want to make sure that people put the approver and the bug number on it
because that way we can..
That was in the message too..
TH OK so we just need to start smacking people to remember to do that
Yeah..so if you see check-in without that..
TB Thats great because think Dar was getting confused and know..
Because she just wanted to know when to re-spin and didnt even expect to re
spin thought we were just going to sit on the bits we created for 24 hours But
now..
We were just talking about when do we want to respin We had some pretty
significant fixes today all..
Were not scheduled for 10 am tomorrow morning is when the next spinning
happens for Win32 at least..
Thats probably fine..
TB OK so do you just want to continue to keep the tree closed just as per..
Yeah probably until tomorrow afternoon
Til All right OK so why dont you just send out the little urn please remember to put
in your approve buy-in bug number..
Or your hand will get slapped
TH Or you will get slapped and..
Are you Mark
Yeah
TH John Marcus
Youre doing great job We exchanged e-mails and...it just kind of got in lock
step and never even talked to eachother
77/o çao7
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TH Poor boy is new to client hes been used to Java and its smaller teams..
Well Novas an easier place to play right now
And Java lived in fear of me so that worked really well
TH Yeah we just have to train the...OK so think were all in the same boat and that
way we know how to proceed Tomorrow morning 10 am build will kick off and
well just make sure so what you need to do is make sure that check ins are
happening with the correct information
Right
Right
TH So we can track that
And Ill let...and then youre handling the uh Mac one correct
TEL No thats John MeMulin Australia little taller...OK all right
Yeah just send another message like you did this morning assume youre
handling this build laughs
TH Right and then in the mean time were working on getting those machines spiffed
up so and Uh talked to Bob Moss about the acceptance tests for 4.5 right now
we really dont have anything ...um
So what do you...
TH Right now we dont have anything to run The stuff that we have for 4.0.5 wont
work for the browser parts and will completely die probably for mail news cause
its completely different The UI is totally different so..
He was running something today that dies on the first CYS thing it got to which
was good
TH Well
was like wow this is the first like real automation bug in Nova laughs
j0
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TH So talked to Bob and hes talking to the people who are working on this stuff
but realistically we probably arent going to have that stuff before next week if
was gonna make guess on that
OK as soon as we can get the automation scripts through this bug well..
TH Were ready. .right .for Windows were ready all we have to do is plug in the
right T-File and then J-J Enser has been doing lot of work for the Mac
Automation that should translate the same...theres some additional issues with Mac
running those builds and the UNIX is big black hole right now
Oh Im not even
There is one thing we need to do to make the Windows build..
There was someone darning that the Mac rebuid is being handled improperly
TH Are we building Mapping again
Thats what the assertion was
TH When did we start doing that Oh never mind dont want to know
Yeah but
TH OK so. .are we set
Yep
TH OK good thank you You know what to do
So well get new builds out tomorrow morning
TH Tomorrow morning
Or at 10 is when they will fire off
So we do building the only problem with that is we wont get them until.
TH About noon
could launch it earlier if that would help
would prefer if you could launch it earlier
TH It actually doesnt matter at this point because it need to be contingent on the tree
closing if the trees already closed so you can jut say..
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Right so Ill..
TFI What you should do is send out mail tonight saying when the builds will kick off so
that way people will have their..
Id kick it off like at 400am
That would be great If the installers are ready for QA and other marketing folks to
jump on in the morning..
When do those individuals show up form your team in the morning
Oh..some people are actually in at about
So if launching at 400am would probably be optimal
If you can have it by it would be..
Th Right and then when you come in do quick spot check on them and then just
push them out Thats what Milan does and that seems to work pretty well
They push out automatically
TH OK never mind
Im rendering myself useless even as we speak so
TH You know what thats our job though is automate ourselves and insensibility
OK well then well touch base tomorrow and make sure everything still runs
smoothly
Job security and nothing ever works perfect..
And out job is to continue to screw it up right
TH Right OK
Ill go re-tool the launch
TH You go Bug count
Tara quick question whats the state of the universe
TH Uh state of the universe Uh were doomed PM Doomed capital Uh the
Java spank hit last night but the switch has not been thrown for it yet All of the
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major modifications have been made but uh were still doing the last make file
stuff and testing and...Saras working on that right now for windows and then uh
Mac we probably wont know what the status of that is until tomorrow
unfortunateiy And security were still trudging along We threw the switch for
UNIX it seems to work urn windows is still very broken and Mac hasnt even
been touched yet so thats our big panic right now and so were gonna go
check up with Weinstein and see what the deal is on that Urn
tapebreak J7r
i712 /7 c.ccf
Um the bug count is dropping slowly but not not quick enough It needs to drop
faster and so theres gonna be big push tonight think probably were gonna start
huffing around and latering bugs that were not gonna get to if we can get away
with it just try to get that kind of off to the last minute stuff that we wish we had
more time fort
Are you going to go over and see Jeff Weinstein
FF1 Uh yeah Im waiting for Gramps to show backup and then well probably try to
try and find him
time will he be back Don
He should be back in the next 10 to 15 minutes
go with you are you going to walk over
probably its just right across the street
I2.-
What
TH
Well
TH
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You want to hear about the night
What was the fun like last night
Oh last night oh that was fun So the Java check in...well two big things
happened last night We threw the switch on security so that we enabled the
disabling of security to happen on UNIX And lot of that touched on files that the
other platforms used Urn in particular this one file that has all this important
information that we strip out and then put back in Its this weird build thing that
hes constructed Urn and that was complete..it was breaking the Mae and then it
was breaking Windows and then it was breaking the Mac and then it was breaking
all three platforms so the time to regenerate build is couple of hours so when
you do fix theres lag before you find out whether or not cross platform it
workednd then at the same time about 11 oclock the Java team started to hit
the tree Their check-out their check-in continued until about uh 130 urn
theyre trying to be pretty careful about their check-in and then we spent the next
and 1/2 hours fixing incremental problems that we were finding with those
changes to cross platform Urn finally sort of collapsed on the couch about 800
Just in time for Sara to show up to hand off stuff hand off stuff to Urn and then
was up again at 10 to hit the bug list thing And probably unfortunately may end
up doing that again tonight since we only have its Wednesday right todays
and probably about weeks worth of
work
ounds fun
No its not Its not fun at all
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So youre not gonna go home tonight
TH Well you know would realiy like to my dogs havent seen mf
Iv 34Z
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how things are going as far as bug fixes do you have number
DM We didnt have meeting today bcaseu Michael wanted to kill the meeting so we
could all do work which though was very very good idea Were holding at
about 30 or so bugs that matte for Friday think were 80 total but most of the
rest are cruft that were not going to have to worry about until next week The big
thing right now is uh three things Im worried about which is the security-ectomy
the java-ectomy and in general the Mac Build because uh the Mac Build is done
differently its done with these things called project files rather than make files and
its lot harder to make big radical changes And were trying to do all of these
three things in parallel and its just colossal pain and weve got some resource
issues where weve had to switch some people around Now at the same time
were trying to focus on those three big things and feel really want to get those
under control tonight cause if we dont feel like we have our arms around that
tonight Wednesday night were doomed for getting it in on Friday right dont
think its gonna haPPJUm so with those three issues we also have the things
thats getting us right now is signing all the files You know Lloyd Tabbs sign out
the file thing And weve got lots of problems with that in the sense that weve got
some key people out sick actually who were signed up to sign bunch of files Im $IIK
running around trying to get other people to do that Weve got other people who
own lot of files who are unfortunately are involved in those first three issues so
we have to get other people assigned their files uh and in the process of signing it
files we done re-review on what we did and we went- OOPS we missed
couple of things So like urn one of em we apparently used in one file some code
out of Develop Magazine article by Brian Ressler urn Betrs is his nickname
4e is
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hes know in the valley friend of mine from when worked at Adobe so why
the call him Beakers dont know anything get clearance from him to use his
work and credit him and all that stuff and get that out of the way cause thats P-O
priority zero bug until then And uh its you know just one stupid nightmare
after another And also have the added problem that normally on Wednesday
nights it is Wednesday isnt it that the Mac engineers usually duck out to the
pool hail on Castro Street and play pool and drink beer and eat ice cream who_J
knows And so Ive offered like meal bounty like Im buying whatever you
want tonight just stick around and work yourselves to death and so Im being
you know the cruel task master whatever And well see how that works Cause
several of them got kind of tired last night Steve and Scott were working pretty
late so..
Is there anything more challenging about this particular undertaking than
you ordinarily encounter or is this standard stuff
DM Well part of the standard thing is the is fighting entropy in the the kind of thing
when you run around like chicken with your head cut off kind of thing But really
the different
thing in source 331 is you know were having to be were having to
thing like lawyers and bureaucrats and stuff with all these source files were
having to think much more closely about the build And really were making it up
as we go along because nobodys ever tried to pull this stunt with source base
this
large mean its huge mean there are operating systems out there that arent
as big as our code base right Um which is both good and bad guess So thats
the hardest thing is that were inventing the process as we go uh and everyday is
just one new thing that we though we had handle on and the right way to do it
and its nuts Like today again what reared its ugly head is how were gonna deal
with the fact that it looks like we cant give the mail and news source out because of
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licensing issues And so weve got the Netscape faction right who you know
were tired and like were being flogged its like no no no we wont give it up
because thats easier right Now go away and dont bother me So they can get
something else done And then we have the people in Mozilla.org you know who
have to put on the Mozilla.org hat and think for the internet and say you know this
is bogus weve got to give something out or were not being true and theyre
doing the right thing as wbutyeu-imwtTiat balancing act isj ri ht
uh people get sick you know this week cause theyve been
working so long and people also blow up laughs and get angry which can be
fun to watch actually on occasion myself blew up last night uh at couple of
people and apologized profusely dont normally do that which was good sign
to me to go home think left at after 1100 last night went home and said no
tonight slee ing hours hours of sleep and wont do something stupid like
that again
UmTara though Im worried about Tara Shes got like and half three hours
sleep tops right now She looks uh like hell really like hell And thats gonna
happen think to the Java and security team members as well And theyre like
critical path on critical
resou_f/so uh were gonna ..tonights gonna be fun
night If we dont make some headway tonight uh think were doomed for
Friday otmeathat were doomed for failure for 331 just so you
know mean the Friday day is day we just pulled out of asses right mean
laughs we said OK we better have this much done because when you have when
youve never done this before you want to be really conservative and you want to
say we want to have this much accomplished by that day hse that gives us
enough time to test it and get it right and everything else
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the people in the building and working on 331 is there one that you
hate to see not be part of the process
Its Tara ara is theuh is the focal point fora lot of this stuff Cause she really
has to know everything aS keep everything in-her liand stuff like that If
there is one person dont think there is one person and thats one thing that
makes it fun about working at Netscape and being team cause we distribute the
pain lot And if Tara has to go home and crash or if she implodes slightly for
temporary reason or whatever then the nice thing about working at Netscape is
you know people jump in and fill the Gap Like one of the guys on my team
Chris MacAfee whos home sick today hes actually still working from home
though you know groggy over the keyboards but other people on his team and
other teams are jumping in to help him right to cover the bases You know if get
hit by bus tomorrow mean somebody will cover for me And when you think
about it mostly what do is like my big job is being busy body right is just
making sure everything is getting done Its like the person on the assembly line
that makes sure the widgets are there right And you know somebody is sitting
there at the beginning of the process and feeding it you know thats one of my
jobs is to make sure that happens Uh Tarns job is you know more complicated
Shes got to be the person whos got like 50 conveyor belts feeding here and
likejj
handing things off and so its little bit harder
Michael right now is sitting up at much higher lever trying to deal with some um
some bigger issues and Lloyd right now is worried about lot of Mozilla.org stuff
and the whole process of signing And we sort of switch hats lot of times Like
you know we just play it by ear And the four of us have generally been the ones
in the center of that mess right now
Of all
would
DM
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saw Jamie Zawinksi in the build pit it Looked like he was helping out
little bit
DM Yeah looked at him and said you know Jamie theres something different about
you today and bet you know what it is And so uh its true But you cant miss
the hair can you Cant miss the hair
Urn yeah its been really good because lot of people have been jumping in and
doing what they can uh weird hours and solving problems that are not their jobs
and one thing thats really great about this organization is the willingness to do
that You know its not my job unless it gets done we fail so something better
get done and really like working with group of people like that and
organization like that and just doing the mean stuff like this
suppose you learn lot Now if Ill have this experience ill ever go to another
company thats gonna do something this crazy Ill certainly know how to do that
Great thanks Well catch up with you tonight at 10
DM Yeah We may actually have lot of the problems solved Ill still be here at 10
oclock Um Scott will still be here urn several of the other people will still be
here we may have some of the problems actually solved by then Uh but Ill
certainly still be here
We may check in..
DM Why dont you give me call around...why dont you give me call around
oclock Heres the number...
79IL
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DM Yeah this things strapped to my ass all the time too Uh 510-501-3846
So did you have pilot before you came here..
tape breaks
DM And if you cant get hold of me here call Scott Collins at 650-937-2350 and hell
know how to find me
You ought to sit down and talk to Scott for while Youd get some real colorful
footage
Im gonna do that like Scott
/1
break
Honey Im home
So uh did you find out anything about security things
TH Im waiting for call back
DM OK so were still kind of doomed that way right
Th Yeah
DM OK
TH Ahh
DM OK so urn whats the if we dont here from Jeff by..
TH Im thinking very strongly that maybe Ill get in my little car and go toddling well
that would be really lazy will walk across the street and go to building 12 and go
find him and beat him and see whats going on
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DM Cause yeah if were not getting that if we dont get that data to Cathy and urn
we want to get the rest of the thing on Windows were doomed
OK Im gonna go upstairs and see how the Mac Weasels are doing
TH And at night the icicles go
DM There you go there you go Thats what my biggest fear is And Rick..
TM
tlle5
still not answering his phone dont think he loves us
DM dont think he ever answers that damn phone
TM Oh wait minute he went out to dinner No he sent me mail saying hes leaving
and coming back
DM Is this dinner is this lunch or is this breakfast
TH Well you never know with Weinstein Hang on...Jeff Weinstein nope sender.
Hey if you talk to him tell him to answer my mail
DM Hes note answering his mail either
Well just sent it little while ago so...you know.
TH It says will be out of the office from to
DM
TH
DM
Well its so he like got excited and left early
Urn well he better have gotten some data to Cathy or thats not gonna get any
traction before and then ..hey
actually have 4.5 issue need to go over with him
Oh OK and then we need to get
the windows thing under control right
Yes Sara is busily building right now and..
Is she going to be living here tonight if Jeff back at to answer the question
Uh thats entirely possible
OK are you going to be here tonight
Thats entirely possible
Th
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Thats entirely too possible laughs
And you know how much tequila Im gonna want out of this
Speaking of that was wondering if could get shot of medication Perhaps..
You know um...yeah
Any cups
Are you kidding Salud
Smooth
Gimme that back But you didnt finish it
Huh non want you to fill that up about half way laughter
Must have more..
Bingo
Remember you have to drink you quickly or it east its way through the cup
just imagine what it does to my throat
Thats what Brian always says
Ohyeah
Do you feel medicated
Retire that one OK..
Its dead OK so youre gonna go upstairs and youre gonna come back down
here and maybe you and will hold hands and go across and find Jeff in the next 20
minutes OK 20 minutes
All right Ill be back
All right Im gonna check in with these guys and then Im gonna see when they
want to have lunch and Im gonna try to keep them here and not go out and play
pool tonight which they usually do on Wednesday
TEl Be prepared to offer .1
DM told them whatever the hell they want to eat Im buying
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Til Well did that last night Im done
DM We cant expense that cant we
TH lam planning on it
DM Thats about what it cost me back in January when uh the Tight House
remember..
TH Oh dont remind me
DM Yeah yeah
TH Please site down
what do you want
TH Uh want what want is just to figure out what our process is for uh like right
now you guys are making check-ins does it make sense to keep the tree closed
Should we just re-open the tree whos approving the check-ins uh. .what your
procedure how do you want to run this
Uh cause yeah we pinged and said you know look warn us before you cheek
and that has not happened
TH Right and if theres lots of stuff coming in basically the reason wed want to
know is are we taking incremental changes to these builds you know what
whats...how do you want to handle that
Well wanted to generally keep the tree closed in closed state thats not open
for any thing other than approved changes..
TH OK
And we should just talk about what approved change means had uh without
uh any advice from you said approved change meant your manager approved it
and you had appropriate code review and all those other kinds of things
TH What we probably want to do thats great...
And gave Marcus the ability to close the tree if he needed to not even open close
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TH Right think what we want to do is to make sure that when we do the approve
stuff we want to make sure that people put the approver and the bug number on it
because that way we can..
That was in the message too..
TH OK so we just need to start smacking people to remember to do that
Yeah..so if you see check-in without that..
TB Thats great because think Dar was getting confused and know..
Because she just wanted to know when to re-spin and didnt even expect to re
spin thought we were just going to sit on the bits we created for 24 hours But
now..
We were just talking about when do we want to respin We had some pretty
significant fixes today all..
Were not scheduled for 10 am tomorrow morning is when the next spinning
happens for Win32 at least..
Thats probably fine..
TB OK so do you just want to continue to keep the tree closed just as per..
Yeah probably until tomorrow afternoon
Til All right OK so why dont you just send out the little urn please remember to put
in your approve buy-in bug number..
Or your hand will get slapped
TH Or you will get slapped and..
Are you Mark
Yeah
TH John Marcus
Youre doing great job We exchanged e-mails and...it just kind of got in lock
step and never even talked to eachother
77/o çao7
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TH Poor boy is new to client hes been used to Java and its smaller teams..
Well Novas an easier place to play right now
And Java lived in fear of me so that worked really well
TH Yeah we just have to train the...OK so think were all in the same boat and that
way we know how to proceed Tomorrow morning 10 am build will kick off and
well just make sure so what you need to do is make sure that check ins are
happening with the correct information
Right
Right
TH So we can track that
And Ill let...and then youre handling the uh Mac one correct
TEL No thats John MeMulin Australia little taller...OK all right
Yeah just send another message like you did this morning assume youre
handling this build laughs
TH Right and then in the mean time were working on getting those machines spiffed
up so and Uh talked to Bob Moss about the acceptance tests for 4.5 right now
we really dont have anything ...um
So what do you...
TH Right now we dont have anything to run The stuff that we have for 4.0.5 wont
work for the browser parts and will completely die probably for mail news cause
its completely different The UI is totally different so..
He was running something today that dies on the first CYS thing it got to which
was good
TH Well
was like wow this is the first like real automation bug in Nova laughs
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TH So talked to Bob and hes talking to the people who are working on this stuff
but realistically we probably arent going to have that stuff before next week if
was gonna make guess on that
OK as soon as we can get the automation scripts through this bug well..
TH Were ready. .right .for Windows were ready all we have to do is plug in the
right T-File and then J-J Enser has been doing lot of work for the Mac
Automation that should translate the same...theres some additional issues with Mac
running those builds and the UNIX is big black hole right now
Oh Im not even
There is one thing we need to do to make the Windows build..
There was someone darning that the Mac rebuid is being handled improperly
TH Are we building Mapping again
Thats what the assertion was
TH When did we start doing that Oh never mind dont want to know
Yeah but
TH OK so. .are we set
Yep
TH OK good thank you You know what to do
So well get new builds out tomorrow morning
TH Tomorrow morning
Or at 10 is when they will fire off
So we do building the only problem with that is we wont get them until.
TH About noon
could launch it earlier if that would help
would prefer if you could launch it earlier
TH It actually doesnt matter at this point because it need to be contingent on the tree
closing if the trees already closed so you can jut say..
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Right so Ill..
TFI What you should do is send out mail tonight saying when the builds will kick off so
that way people will have their..
Id kick it off like at 400am
That would be great If the installers are ready for QA and other marketing folks to
jump on in the morning..
When do those individuals show up form your team in the morning
Oh..some people are actually in at about
So if launching at 400am would probably be optimal
If you can have it by it would be..
Th Right and then when you come in do quick spot check on them and then just
push them out Thats what Milan does and that seems to work pretty well
They push out automatically
TH OK never mind
Im rendering myself useless even as we speak so
TH You know what thats our job though is automate ourselves and insensibility
OK well then well touch base tomorrow and make sure everything still runs
smoothly
Job security and nothing ever works perfect..
And out job is to continue to screw it up right
TH Right OK
Ill go re-tool the launch
TH You go Bug count
Tara quick question whats the state of the universe
TH Uh state of the universe Uh were doomed PM Doomed capital Uh the
Java spank hit last night but the switch has not been thrown for it yet All of the
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major modifications have been made but uh were still doing the last make file
stuff and testing and...Saras working on that right now for windows and then uh
Mac we probably wont know what the status of that is until tomorrow
unfortunateiy And security were still trudging along We threw the switch for
UNIX it seems to work urn windows is still very broken and Mac hasnt even
been touched yet so thats our big panic right now and so were gonna go
check up with Weinstein and see what the deal is on that Urn
tapebreak J7r
i712 /7 c.ccf
Um the bug count is dropping slowly but not not quick enough It needs to drop
faster and so theres gonna be big push tonight think probably were gonna start
huffing around and latering bugs that were not gonna get to if we can get away
with it just try to get that kind of off to the last minute stuff that we wish we had
more time fort
Are you going to go over and see Jeff Weinstein
FF1 Uh yeah Im waiting for Gramps to show backup and then well probably try to
try and find him
time will he be back Don
He should be back in the next 10 to 15 minutes
go with you are you going to walk over
probably its just right across the street
I2.-
What
TH
Well
TH
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You want to hear about the night
What was the fun like last night
Oh last night oh that was fun So the Java check in...well two big things
happened last night We threw the switch on security so that we enabled the
disabling of security to happen on UNIX And lot of that touched on files that the
other platforms used Urn in particular this one file that has all this important
information that we strip out and then put back in Its this weird build thing that
hes constructed Urn and that was complete..it was breaking the Mae and then it
was breaking Windows and then it was breaking the Mac and then it was breaking
all three platforms so the time to regenerate build is couple of hours so when
you do fix theres lag before you find out whether or not cross platform it
workednd then at the same time about 11 oclock the Java team started to hit
the tree Their check-out their check-in continued until about uh 130 urn
theyre trying to be pretty careful about their check-in and then we spent the next
and 1/2 hours fixing incremental problems that we were finding with those
changes to cross platform Urn finally sort of collapsed on the couch about 800
Just in time for Sara to show up to hand off stuff hand off stuff to Urn and then
was up again at 10 to hit the bug list thing And probably unfortunately may end
up doing that again tonight since we only have its Wednesday right todays
and probably about weeks worth of
work
ounds fun
No its not Its not fun at all
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So youre not gonna go home tonight
TH Well you know would realiy like to my dogs havent seen mf
Iv 34Z
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This is the new look for the
This is the new look for the tapes