Tape 008 - Clip 1
Short_Description:
More M Toy Meeting
Video:
TranscriptText:
Terry They are shipping this stupid thing and it doesnt even have to build then there is
heck of lot of testing and Beta processing and whatever that youre going to go
through between now and then and the date can be lot later than this Friday
MT All right so how is this answer
Terry And then we decide that oh we cant let Terry go do this thing until then
Ml right right right we cant do that am just
reluctant to sign up for the political
fight that is going to ensue from this
JZ Which political fight is this.
Terry Giving me two weeks
MT Fighting over Terrys body
JZ see
Ml OK guess have to have little fight today
JZ So how much work is..
Terry Idont know
JZ You have no idea..
Terry pulled the number two weeks out of my butt when asked but the work involved
is go make an abstract API..
JZ wait wait wait wait what is it theyre asserting intellectual property claims over
exactly Does anyone know the answer to that
Terry The API apparently as well as the infloatation...
MT Well the infloatation obviously
JZ Obviously
Terry Obviously but the API as well
MT You have to get different license in order to explode their API
Terry Really
MT Yeah
page
Netscape Documentary
Tape More mtg
JZ In order to expose calls into their code which is mean you could interpret
expose their API as meaning something else as meaning allow other people to cafl
in to their code or something like that
MT Oh see what youre saying
JZ Which is know thats one thing that they were concerned about was they didnt
want us to ship something that general purpose enough that we were effectively
giving away their database
Right like used to do with Motif like against Navigator..
laughter
JZ If we had exposed their Java Script interface that was like general purpose
database that happened to be using their thing at the back end they would have
flipped
MT And you understand that right
Terry Yes
MT have to admit dont really understand that.js the most important thing in the
universej
Terry No person who actually thinks in rational lines of thoughts understand why we
cant do this..
JZ Except lawyers dont actually ever tell you that you cant do that
Terry Of course they do..
JZ No they dont lawyers say Im concerned..
MT Lawyers dont tell you anything all they do is give you information and advice
and tell you how concerned they are about something..
They say if you dont do this then wont be held liable because..
JZ Well theyre never held liable no matter what you do
MT No theyre never held liable theyre just like...
page
Netscape Documentary
Tape More mtg
JZ They say think the odds are high that you will that it will cost us this much money
if you take this path thats the kind of answer theyll give you
Terry In this particular case its more of you need to do this to completely cover your ass
JZ OK
MT Thats your take on it
Terry Thats my spin thats my impression And dont know how uncovered our asses
are going to be
MT If someone actually talked to Liv Neal on this Ijust need to find out who that
person
break
MT And Everybody except Jeff Weinstein and Jim Roskind said oh Ill be done
tomorrow
Terry Thats good they said that credibly
JZ And what did Jeff say
NIT Jeff was silent by his absence thems lot of that going around Whats up Alan
Do you have the contents of the copyright notice that has to go to documentation
ckc
MT do not That
buj/we
acknowledgedihe receipt of the asking of the question
laughter Well just want to let you know exactly where it is..
JZ Is there like Fed-ex tracking number on that question laughter
Ml Well as matter of fact..
JZ It left the gate in Tulsa..
It turns out that we could have put documentation out them before our source if we
can get
that
..piece of content solved before we got our license solved it turns out
its gonna be the backwards..
co
page
Netscape Documentary
Tape More mtg
Cant we just like put license copyright on the source that says completely
property of Netscape do not eat and then change it later
Yes we can use the same one as on Deb Edge
JZ OK why arent we doing that
Because we cant get the lawyers to say its ok
MT No no the lawyers never tell you its ok they only advise
We havent go the lawyers to respond to that question
MT OK heres what you should heres the way you should solve the problem you
should say heres my source code with the restrictive copyright on it Tom Paquin
please publish this..
JZ The documentation not the restrictive copyright
MT Yeah yeah. .ha ha would like to give this to you for you to publish and will
completely support when he comes back here and says should let Alan do this
Ill say yes you should let Alan do this
OK and you think the copyright thats on Deb Edge is sufficient
Ml We should make that be Toms problem and not yours
JZ think that copy right the copyright we eventually end up using will be less
restrictive than that
rirj-mr\ 04er
By Michael
MT By Alan thanks for coming by
JZ So think managed to convince Mitchell that if the license goes out with Clause
in tact no one will use it and theyll issue all of their new code under another
license..
Ml Well thats the whole reason were doing the licensed Beta right..
page
Netscape Documentary
Tape8Moremtg
break
JZ As far as the software universe goes Im not concerned becaseu feel like no
matter mean even if section stays in as it is now..
MT Oh theyll just take our source code and..
JZ can make Mozilla.org work there will he code in there under two licenses and
then client eng is gonna have bitch of time because theres code under one
license and code under another license and they like have hard time accepting
that other license ri tsothathasto ts non-issue really..
MT False
The hitch is that being under mean if someone put...with themselves in Section
thats just as bad for Netscape
MT True
Because it means we cant..
Thats what mean theres no reason for me to put new code in under BSD rather
than put it under the Netscape NPL..
MT So at one point and time Mike Homer promised not to sell other peoples code But
he cy if thats the thing which makes the steal we can make that promise
JZ Yes
Ml Is that
JZ The problem is what the license calls modifications
heck of lot of testing and Beta processing and whatever that youre going to go
through between now and then and the date can be lot later than this Friday
MT All right so how is this answer
Terry And then we decide that oh we cant let Terry go do this thing until then
Ml right right right we cant do that am just
reluctant to sign up for the political
fight that is going to ensue from this
JZ Which political fight is this.
Terry Giving me two weeks
MT Fighting over Terrys body
JZ see
Ml OK guess have to have little fight today
JZ So how much work is..
Terry Idont know
JZ You have no idea..
Terry pulled the number two weeks out of my butt when asked but the work involved
is go make an abstract API..
JZ wait wait wait wait what is it theyre asserting intellectual property claims over
exactly Does anyone know the answer to that
Terry The API apparently as well as the infloatation...
MT Well the infloatation obviously
JZ Obviously
Terry Obviously but the API as well
MT You have to get different license in order to explode their API
Terry Really
MT Yeah
page
Netscape Documentary
Tape More mtg
JZ In order to expose calls into their code which is mean you could interpret
expose their API as meaning something else as meaning allow other people to cafl
in to their code or something like that
MT Oh see what youre saying
JZ Which is know thats one thing that they were concerned about was they didnt
want us to ship something that general purpose enough that we were effectively
giving away their database
Right like used to do with Motif like against Navigator..
laughter
JZ If we had exposed their Java Script interface that was like general purpose
database that happened to be using their thing at the back end they would have
flipped
MT And you understand that right
Terry Yes
MT have to admit dont really understand that.js the most important thing in the
universej
Terry No person who actually thinks in rational lines of thoughts understand why we
cant do this..
JZ Except lawyers dont actually ever tell you that you cant do that
Terry Of course they do..
JZ No they dont lawyers say Im concerned..
MT Lawyers dont tell you anything all they do is give you information and advice
and tell you how concerned they are about something..
They say if you dont do this then wont be held liable because..
JZ Well theyre never held liable no matter what you do
MT No theyre never held liable theyre just like...
page
Netscape Documentary
Tape More mtg
JZ They say think the odds are high that you will that it will cost us this much money
if you take this path thats the kind of answer theyll give you
Terry In this particular case its more of you need to do this to completely cover your ass
JZ OK
MT Thats your take on it
Terry Thats my spin thats my impression And dont know how uncovered our asses
are going to be
MT If someone actually talked to Liv Neal on this Ijust need to find out who that
person
break
MT And Everybody except Jeff Weinstein and Jim Roskind said oh Ill be done
tomorrow
Terry Thats good they said that credibly
JZ And what did Jeff say
NIT Jeff was silent by his absence thems lot of that going around Whats up Alan
Do you have the contents of the copyright notice that has to go to documentation
ckc
MT do not That
buj/we
acknowledgedihe receipt of the asking of the question
laughter Well just want to let you know exactly where it is..
JZ Is there like Fed-ex tracking number on that question laughter
Ml Well as matter of fact..
JZ It left the gate in Tulsa..
It turns out that we could have put documentation out them before our source if we
can get
that
..piece of content solved before we got our license solved it turns out
its gonna be the backwards..
co
page
Netscape Documentary
Tape More mtg
Cant we just like put license copyright on the source that says completely
property of Netscape do not eat and then change it later
Yes we can use the same one as on Deb Edge
JZ OK why arent we doing that
Because we cant get the lawyers to say its ok
MT No no the lawyers never tell you its ok they only advise
We havent go the lawyers to respond to that question
MT OK heres what you should heres the way you should solve the problem you
should say heres my source code with the restrictive copyright on it Tom Paquin
please publish this..
JZ The documentation not the restrictive copyright
MT Yeah yeah. .ha ha would like to give this to you for you to publish and will
completely support when he comes back here and says should let Alan do this
Ill say yes you should let Alan do this
OK and you think the copyright thats on Deb Edge is sufficient
Ml We should make that be Toms problem and not yours
JZ think that copy right the copyright we eventually end up using will be less
restrictive than that
rirj-mr\ 04er
By Michael
MT By Alan thanks for coming by
JZ So think managed to convince Mitchell that if the license goes out with Clause
in tact no one will use it and theyll issue all of their new code under another
license..
Ml Well thats the whole reason were doing the licensed Beta right..
page
Netscape Documentary
Tape8Moremtg
break
JZ As far as the software universe goes Im not concerned becaseu feel like no
matter mean even if section stays in as it is now..
MT Oh theyll just take our source code and..
JZ can make Mozilla.org work there will he code in there under two licenses and
then client eng is gonna have bitch of time because theres code under one
license and code under another license and they like have hard time accepting
that other license ri tsothathasto ts non-issue really..
MT False
The hitch is that being under mean if someone put...with themselves in Section
thats just as bad for Netscape
MT True
Because it means we cant..
Thats what mean theres no reason for me to put new code in under BSD rather
than put it under the Netscape NPL..
MT So at one point and time Mike Homer promised not to sell other peoples code But
he cy if thats the thing which makes the steal we can make that promise
JZ Yes
Ml Is that
JZ The problem is what the license calls modifications
