Tape 006 - Clip 2
Short_Description:
Prep for bug list meeting Michael Toy meeting
TranscriptText:
checked the bug count it was 94 about minutes ago which is down about from
Friday But bunch of people reassigned bugs to me which usually means the bug is
done theres is something that makes them worried about it and they dont want to be the
one to make the call which is the right thing to do
Well dont know theres one of the hardest things
in the universe is to know where you
are hope that by the end of the day well have enough information to make good decision
about where to go
Well in Netscape we would say
that were completely doomed But that only means any
outside person looking at our current state would assume that there would be no way we
were going to succeed But uh thats any one humorous way of thinking about the
universe is that its kind of been that way every day hertso just the fact that youre
doomed doesnt mean that you dont have work to do
Well see the problem is is that the date that were working with is completely artificial
nobody asked us what day we thought we would be all done so in that sense we dont
believe that what were doing is impossible its just whether the time frame that were
being given in which to accomplish this is reasonable And if we had taken long time to
Page
Netscape Documentary
Tape /9/98 Prep for bug list meeting Michael Toy meeting
drill down to whether it was possible or not uh wed still be filling out time estimates we
decided to get going on this as fast as possible
Well the universe of free software has proven that it can do interesting work that its not
complete joke there are plenty of example of stuff going on there now urn theres five
good reason why none of that applies to this so if thats the case most of those cases were
places where theres people who had code that one person
could understand and one
person
owned one person
had designed it so there was some sort of sense of
manageabilit Now were putting something which is really big has never has grown
beyond the point of one person understanding it urn very very quickly and its not clear
that if you put something like that out that individuals are going to be able to jump in and
contribute to itih like you could with piece of software which is basically scoped by
what one person can accomplish so theres lot of ifs and even if we pti od source
good out and the Nets really interested anythings actually going to happen
Theres an old saying that theres people who hack code for money and thers people ho 10
hack code for glory and right now at Netscape you can kind of do both because youve
been being paid all along and your codes going to go up on the net and you get all the
glory7
Those people who have time they should be helping other people not doing Netcast or
source 3-3
Yeah but the important thing...I dont know what the important thingS just need to be
in one place all day long so that we can declare success or failure so it will be very useful
to have sort of war room mentality dont know whether projecting
stuff on the screen
Page
Netscape Documentary
Tape 3/9/98 Prep for bug list meeting Michael Toy meeting
is going to make difference Its certainly not worth stressing over if it works and its
free may do it for fun but
The important work is not happening in this room the important work is actually
happening when people are actually doing the work Right now we have problem with
the work looks like it cant possibly be done for the date we announced so were just
trying to drill down on how doomed we are and sometimes the only way to do that is to
get everybody in the room and stare each other in the eyes and say how doomed are we
because different people have different things Some people have 10 bugs that they are
feeling
certain way about that keeps them from closing it and another person
that really
you could close all 10 in about seconds if you communicated to that person the state of
the universe Another guy
will have one bug hes got to work on for two weeks and
theres just nothing no matter what you say to him thats just how long its going to take
until you all sort of really sit around the table and talk about where we are that youre able
to reh an agreement about the state of the universe you can all make sense about your
busj
Laughter Theyve all received e-mail couple of times infong them that thats what
they need to do whether that actually happens is always bit of die roll sometimes they
never read the e-mail sometimes they read the e-mail but they were here til three in the
morning and getting here at 1100 is little early for them um..
One of the networks is active but dont know which one it is its not that one
This is not Chris Hoffman this is his evil voice mail urn this is Toy and Im sitting up in
the pit pretend you were up in the pit and you wanted live network tap which of the
Page
Netscape Documentary
Tape 3/9/98 Prep for bug list meeting Michael Toy meeting
many holes in the wall would you plug your wire into in order to achieve that Thanks
Whats the phone number in the pit 3-7-8-3 llme thanks bye
misc conversation before meeting
Meeting
103 bugs at the bottom of the list thats laughs the honorable John Charles Morring
providing the bug list bunny rabbits urn OK...the purpose of this meeting is not to beat
up people the purpose of this meeting is to rnake sure that as company we are incredibly
focused on getting the bug count toO uh weve been moderately focused up until now
we need to be deadly focused from here on in Not everybodys in this room thats OK
knew that there are people in this room whos job it is to deal with that problem
Garret Blythe has bugs is he here what
Yes Sir when are closing those bugs
OK the top two Im meeting with Alan tomorrow Fm going to close those after the
meeting the next two will close them later today 11 focus on them
You do not need help
do not need help with those
Are you going to have time over the next week to help other people
Yes
.S
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Netscape Documentary
Tape 3/9/98 Prep for bug list meeting Michael Toy meeting
All right stay
in this room
So wait minute those top two bugs are no show stoppers any new
documentation bug should be show stopper bug
Yes but it also takes an incredibly short time to give enough documentation to make Alan
happy
Well thats true but if we get down to the point where we really try to understand
what the show stoppers are then those dont qualify
So what would your suggestion be Get rid of them now
Not get rid of them come up with list of show stoppers as P-O or something
Well these are already dont know we can see the priority
Well make em P-3
No no..
We can see the priorities
that would be priority right Im looking for the word priority..
Heres thought why dont we use the damn component field and mark it documentation
you know that was what it was supposed to be used for that was going to be my
suggestion
But then the querying becomes hard its much easier just to
just to run complicated query
Page
Netscape Documentary
And that is done sooner or later
Tape 3/9/98 Prep for bug list meeting Michael Toy meeting
All right so all doe bugs are now sub low pæority P. .lower than
OK P3 just stab in the dark
OK Bob John is he here in this room Hes not in this room
He has two doe bugs
Oh theyre doe bugs OK moving on Can we elect representative for Brian Oster OK
Tara hes got three whats up with that
Give me some numbers
107 680 root manifest files
Urn. .Theyre supposed to be done by today
Done today OK Uh fixing bill config for UNIX source distribution 107
Should be done by today or tomorrow
OK Move XFE make-star Netscape NK to NS Priv
pL2
file so it doesnt go out in distribution
Urn thats the moving the security specific packaging crap out of the standard make
It should be done today or tomorrow
If we threw him UNIX aware body would it go faster
He said he was going to work on this all weekend and give me the status today so
would expect that most of the stuff should be done if not then Ill grab somebody
else
30
Page
Netscape Documentary
Tape 3/9/98 Prep for bug list meeting Michael Toy meeting
Urn when is he coming in
In the next half hour 45 minutes
OK go away and corne back when youve heard from Brian
OK Laughs
Wait minute shes got to be here for rather large number of her own bugs
All right youve got your own bugs youre right youre right just didnt want to waste
your time youre right Mark Bums waiting for license full circle
Mark Burg Just left
Basically weve got some source stuff in there we have license and legal so they
can sign off on it Theyve read the HL and theyre cool with it
Where are we
Waiting for license waiver from legal Thats third party code
All right why is this on Mark Burgs list then its not his job to wait for license and legal
We assigned it to John
It was safer that way
Ill do it
OK LNET needs sanitizing No it doesnt
No it doesnt
Its sold 3LP
Lx tp
Page
Friday But bunch of people reassigned bugs to me which usually means the bug is
done theres is something that makes them worried about it and they dont want to be the
one to make the call which is the right thing to do
Well dont know theres one of the hardest things
in the universe is to know where you
are hope that by the end of the day well have enough information to make good decision
about where to go
Well in Netscape we would say
that were completely doomed But that only means any
outside person looking at our current state would assume that there would be no way we
were going to succeed But uh thats any one humorous way of thinking about the
universe is that its kind of been that way every day hertso just the fact that youre
doomed doesnt mean that you dont have work to do
Well see the problem is is that the date that were working with is completely artificial
nobody asked us what day we thought we would be all done so in that sense we dont
believe that what were doing is impossible its just whether the time frame that were
being given in which to accomplish this is reasonable And if we had taken long time to
Page
Netscape Documentary
Tape /9/98 Prep for bug list meeting Michael Toy meeting
drill down to whether it was possible or not uh wed still be filling out time estimates we
decided to get going on this as fast as possible
Well the universe of free software has proven that it can do interesting work that its not
complete joke there are plenty of example of stuff going on there now urn theres five
good reason why none of that applies to this so if thats the case most of those cases were
places where theres people who had code that one person
could understand and one
person
owned one person
had designed it so there was some sort of sense of
manageabilit Now were putting something which is really big has never has grown
beyond the point of one person understanding it urn very very quickly and its not clear
that if you put something like that out that individuals are going to be able to jump in and
contribute to itih like you could with piece of software which is basically scoped by
what one person can accomplish so theres lot of ifs and even if we pti od source
good out and the Nets really interested anythings actually going to happen
Theres an old saying that theres people who hack code for money and thers people ho 10
hack code for glory and right now at Netscape you can kind of do both because youve
been being paid all along and your codes going to go up on the net and you get all the
glory7
Those people who have time they should be helping other people not doing Netcast or
source 3-3
Yeah but the important thing...I dont know what the important thingS just need to be
in one place all day long so that we can declare success or failure so it will be very useful
to have sort of war room mentality dont know whether projecting
stuff on the screen
Page
Netscape Documentary
Tape 3/9/98 Prep for bug list meeting Michael Toy meeting
is going to make difference Its certainly not worth stressing over if it works and its
free may do it for fun but
The important work is not happening in this room the important work is actually
happening when people are actually doing the work Right now we have problem with
the work looks like it cant possibly be done for the date we announced so were just
trying to drill down on how doomed we are and sometimes the only way to do that is to
get everybody in the room and stare each other in the eyes and say how doomed are we
because different people have different things Some people have 10 bugs that they are
feeling
certain way about that keeps them from closing it and another person
that really
you could close all 10 in about seconds if you communicated to that person the state of
the universe Another guy
will have one bug hes got to work on for two weeks and
theres just nothing no matter what you say to him thats just how long its going to take
until you all sort of really sit around the table and talk about where we are that youre able
to reh an agreement about the state of the universe you can all make sense about your
busj
Laughter Theyve all received e-mail couple of times infong them that thats what
they need to do whether that actually happens is always bit of die roll sometimes they
never read the e-mail sometimes they read the e-mail but they were here til three in the
morning and getting here at 1100 is little early for them um..
One of the networks is active but dont know which one it is its not that one
This is not Chris Hoffman this is his evil voice mail urn this is Toy and Im sitting up in
the pit pretend you were up in the pit and you wanted live network tap which of the
Page
Netscape Documentary
Tape 3/9/98 Prep for bug list meeting Michael Toy meeting
many holes in the wall would you plug your wire into in order to achieve that Thanks
Whats the phone number in the pit 3-7-8-3 llme thanks bye
misc conversation before meeting
Meeting
103 bugs at the bottom of the list thats laughs the honorable John Charles Morring
providing the bug list bunny rabbits urn OK...the purpose of this meeting is not to beat
up people the purpose of this meeting is to rnake sure that as company we are incredibly
focused on getting the bug count toO uh weve been moderately focused up until now
we need to be deadly focused from here on in Not everybodys in this room thats OK
knew that there are people in this room whos job it is to deal with that problem
Garret Blythe has bugs is he here what
Yes Sir when are closing those bugs
OK the top two Im meeting with Alan tomorrow Fm going to close those after the
meeting the next two will close them later today 11 focus on them
You do not need help
do not need help with those
Are you going to have time over the next week to help other people
Yes
.S
Page
Netscape Documentary
Tape 3/9/98 Prep for bug list meeting Michael Toy meeting
All right stay
in this room
So wait minute those top two bugs are no show stoppers any new
documentation bug should be show stopper bug
Yes but it also takes an incredibly short time to give enough documentation to make Alan
happy
Well thats true but if we get down to the point where we really try to understand
what the show stoppers are then those dont qualify
So what would your suggestion be Get rid of them now
Not get rid of them come up with list of show stoppers as P-O or something
Well these are already dont know we can see the priority
Well make em P-3
No no..
We can see the priorities
that would be priority right Im looking for the word priority..
Heres thought why dont we use the damn component field and mark it documentation
you know that was what it was supposed to be used for that was going to be my
suggestion
But then the querying becomes hard its much easier just to
just to run complicated query
Page
Netscape Documentary
And that is done sooner or later
Tape 3/9/98 Prep for bug list meeting Michael Toy meeting
All right so all doe bugs are now sub low pæority P. .lower than
OK P3 just stab in the dark
OK Bob John is he here in this room Hes not in this room
He has two doe bugs
Oh theyre doe bugs OK moving on Can we elect representative for Brian Oster OK
Tara hes got three whats up with that
Give me some numbers
107 680 root manifest files
Urn. .Theyre supposed to be done by today
Done today OK Uh fixing bill config for UNIX source distribution 107
Should be done by today or tomorrow
OK Move XFE make-star Netscape NK to NS Priv
pL2
file so it doesnt go out in distribution
Urn thats the moving the security specific packaging crap out of the standard make
It should be done today or tomorrow
If we threw him UNIX aware body would it go faster
He said he was going to work on this all weekend and give me the status today so
would expect that most of the stuff should be done if not then Ill grab somebody
else
30
Page
Netscape Documentary
Tape 3/9/98 Prep for bug list meeting Michael Toy meeting
Urn when is he coming in
In the next half hour 45 minutes
OK go away and corne back when youve heard from Brian
OK Laughs
Wait minute shes got to be here for rather large number of her own bugs
All right youve got your own bugs youre right youre right just didnt want to waste
your time youre right Mark Bums waiting for license full circle
Mark Burg Just left
Basically weve got some source stuff in there we have license and legal so they
can sign off on it Theyve read the HL and theyre cool with it
Where are we
Waiting for license waiver from legal Thats third party code
All right why is this on Mark Burgs list then its not his job to wait for license and legal
We assigned it to John
It was safer that way
Ill do it
OK LNET needs sanitizing No it doesnt
No it doesnt
Its sold 3LP
Lx tp
Page
